Frank (Left) and Gus (Right) at Grist Iron Dog Park. Author’s photo.
The following is a creatively written transcript of an interview between Andrew DiMeo, Sr, Ph.D—head of the Authbition podcast and community, as well as the original mind behind “The Whole Mind Game”—and writer Lindy Vogel, essayist and mother of six.
Lindy: Can I call you Dr. DiMeo, or are we on a first-name basis now? I’ve commandeered you as an editor for my new publication. So maybe we’re friends now?
Andrew: Haha! Commandeered sounds right. “Andrew,” please.
Lindy: You had a story you were telling that got this whole thing started. Can you share it?
Andrew: Yes. It started with sort of a dream.
I fell asleep thinking about how the dogs find joy in the simplest of pleasures.
Frank, almost two, will play fetch with himself. He’ll grab a ball in his mouth and then fold his body up like a spring. When he releases, he opens his jaws at just the right time to release it high into the air. The ball lands somewhere behind him. He spins, finds it, and attacks!
Gus is eleven. That’s ‘old man’ in dog years. But he’s young at heart and as playful as ever. He’ll launch himself into the backyard from the deck in a mad sprint to catch a squirrel. He may return limping. But it doesn’t deter him from the next round of mischief.
They are just so playful. Age doesn’t matter.
I thought about my Pop — my mother’s father — and his wise words:
“Andy, never grow up.”
Then, an evil voice entered my head. The voice of a harridan.
“Grow up!”
Reflecting on who these voices are coming from, it’s easy to pick a side.
It’s important that we not take the easy way out, however. That reflecting I was doing is a clue to entering a creative state of mind. I created a game — “The Whole Mind Game.”
Lindy: Oh. That sounds interesting. Can you describe the game?
Andrew: Yes!
Here’s how The Whole Mind Game works:
In the game, we ask seven questions.
It’s best played with a friend. I play it at the dinner table with my wife and on my podcast with the guests.
Do you want to try something new? An asynchronous game. We can play it together, right here on Medium’s new platform, TK.
Lindy: Oh. That sounds fun. Okay, so for this game, we’re playing with the struggle of ‘never grow up’ and ‘grow up’. Right?
Andrew: Exactly. I’ll start by asking the questions. You go first, then I’ll offer my answers.
What’s the best of ‘never grow up’?
Lindy: Not taking yourself too seriously. Willingness to take risks. Being able to relate to (and empathize with) young people in a way that is less “far-removed” from an emotional POV. More fun and spontaneity.
Andrew: Oh. That’s beautiful. Here’s what I’m thinking: playfulness. No shame. Living moment to moment. Flexibility. Rapid recovery.
Okay. Next question:
What’s the worst of ‘never grow up’?
Lindy: Relational fallout with family members. Other relationship struggles.
Andrew: Irresponsible. Reckless. Lack of independence.
We have a rhythm going now.
What’s the best of ‘grow up’?
Lindy: Autonomy. “I am the captain now” energy. No longer having to give a fuck when people put you down. Creative freedom. Added perspective only maturity and experience bring.
Andrew: Independence. Not needing to ask permission.
What’s funny about these two bests … The relationships where we need to get permission from a spouse. “I got a hall pass to go to the concert” kind of thing. Or needing to ask permission for vacation days.
I say, fuck that!
The moment I fell in love with my now-wife 2.0 was when I asked her, “Is it cool if I meet up with some friends tonight?” and she responded, “Do I look like your mother?”
Hahaha! That’s not when I fell in love with her. But, damn, I do love her for that.
I don’t ask my employer for time off. I let them know, “I’m taking a vacation.” That’s the best part of being a grown-up!
Oh boy, I rambled there. I tend to do that in this game. Your turn.
What’s the worst of ‘growing up’?
Lindy: I love a good, rambling story! Ok. Worst of ‘growing up’…how about the potential for a midlife crisis, as we notice time passing and dreams/important milestones maybe not quite materialized or realized yet.
What’s yours?
Andrew: Feeling crippled with responsibility. Buying into the “it’s all downhill from here mentality.” Getting stuck in rigid cycles. I’m a firm believer that a rigid sleep schedule, square meals, and ideal thermostat temperatures are all ways to become so rigid that we lack flexibility.
So, I guess my words are: ‘crippled with responsibility’ and ‘rigid’.
What’s the best of the best? The best of ‘never grow up’ held together with the best of ‘grow up’?
Lindy: Autonomy and greater creative freedom.
Andrew: Well, I try to pick one theme from each of my answers. Like this:
Flexible Independent.
Lindy: Oh, ok. I think I understand. Autonomous creative.
Andrew: Yes! That’s such a cool synergy.
Now we play the trap!
What’s the worst of the worst?
Lindy: Midlife crisis with no family!
Andrew: That’s not a happy place to be. Wow. It’s bringing me back to the dark days before I met my wife. That’s another story.
Okay, here’s mine: Reckless and Crippled with Responsibility
What are ways to live the synergy and recognize the trap?
Lindy: Hmm, let’s see. How can I bring ‘autonomous creative’ into my life? Keep doing what I’ve been starting to do better with over the last few weeks: make sure I write down (electronically save) ideas I randomly get; make sure my mind and body are healthy enough for autonomous life—i.e., physical exercise, breaks I take outside in nature, and face-to-face connection with family and friends.
What are some ways I can foresee and avoid the trap of midlife crisis-ing alone?
Take inventory of the health of my friendships and family relationships. Ask myself whether, if I had a nervous breakdown tomorrow, there is someone I’ve developed a strong friendship with over the last few years that I could call without shame. Then, nurture my human relationships as a priority. Go out of my way to check in with those I love—and especially those I haven’t seen much IRL in a while.
Andrew: Oh, I love that. I love how ‘autonomous creative’ landed on activities that promote a healthy mind and body. And on a connection to nature, family, and friends. It’s beautiful.
Okay, my turn.
What are some ways I can live out ‘flexible independent’?
Ensure I’m taking care of number one. Schedule massages. Go to yoga. Ride my bike. It’s important I’m communicating with my loved ones, family, friends and professional relationships without seeking permission. I’m taking ownership of my flexibility.
What are some of the ways I can recognize a ‘Reckless-and-Crippled-with-Responsibility’ trap?
I can’t sleep because I’m worried about paying the bills and then recklessly go on a late-night shopping spree. That’s heading in the wrong direction! If I feel rigid or trapped. If I suffer when there’s a change to my routine, that’s a sign that I’ve lost flexibility.
Lindy: This has been unbelievably helpful. Thank you, Andrew, for this game that’s stretching my brain and reshaping my intentions now.
Andrew: This was so much fun. Thank you for playing along, Lindy. I truly believe that one of the greatest skills a human can have is the ability to hold two opposing thoughts together at the same time. The greater the tension, the greater the opportunity for creativity.
I couldn’t have predicted that ‘never grow up’ and ‘grow up,’ when held together, would land on ‘flexible independent’ and ‘autonomous creative.’ How cool!